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Sometimes it feels like I’m seeing so many things from so many different angles that I'm having a hard time knowing where I actually stand.
Wednesday, June 30, 2004
I know I can survive this. I'm just a little unsure that this is what I really want. I love spending time with Sara and Sam. I love it. But I do want a different life...I think. I think this is a time to figure out what I want. I guess Sara knows what she wants. And if she finds it before I know what I want...well I'll be happy for her. But I am going to miss her soooo much. I'm having a really hard time with this. Just sitting here thinking about the fourth of july without her and Sam...it makes me so sad. Especially knowing that they're going to be alone as well.
But if i'm going to do this...I'm going to do it right. I don't know that I need a divorce to figure out what I need to. But at this point...I think it's the best option.
But if i'm going to do this...I'm going to do it right. I don't know that I need a divorce to figure out what I need to. But at this point...I think it's the best option.
From June 21:
Why do you want a divorce?
Well, it’s not that I want one, but I don’t know that there’s anyway around it. I’m not the same man that Sara married. I’m not quite sure who I am but I want to figure that out…and I don’t think I can do that within the boundaries of marriage.
What kinds of things are you talking about?
Well, what kind of woman would I be with if I could be with any woman in the world? Do I like to drink? What kind of clothes do I prefer? What kind of a person do I want to be, not what kind of person does everybody want me to be, but who do I want me to be?
So, why can’t you figure these things out while you’re married?
Well, how can you love someone when you don’t know who they are? And if they don’t even know who they are, how can you hope to know who they are? I know that Sara wants somebody in the church, a priesthood holder, and I don’t know that that will ever be me. So I figure, I may as well let her be free to find what she is really looking for, while I figure out who I really am.
Do you love her?
Yes.
Would you consider yourself “in love” with her?
No, I don’t know if I ever actually was. I mean I wanted her to think I was, and I tried to make myself believe I was…but I’m not sure I ever actually was. I knew that she was in love with me, and because I did love her, I didn’t want to let her down or break her heart. Besides, I like her too. But I think that when you are in love with something, you are happy to let go of every other option…and I don’t know that I ever reached that point.
I also don’t know if I could be in love with her while she’s in love with me…maybe I’m the type of person that only wants what I can’t have. And yet, I do think it’s possible to be in love with someone that is in love with you…albeit rare. But it is something I seek for. In fact, I’ve been thinking a lot about unconditional love and being “free” from your partner. I’m guessing that there’s a love where both people love the other person unconditionally – which isn’t possible unless you’re truly free of them…and that love could be so powerful and help a person find so much happiness that it would be amazing.
Do you think such a love is possible with Sara?
I’m not sure. It would be if I was capable of loving Sara in such a way. This is something I have a hard time with. If you love somebody unconditionally…well then, why does it have to be them? And what is that you love about them then if they could change anything about themselves and you’d still love them? Is it safe to say that you’d still love the person but not be in love with what they have become? I feel like I really tried to love Sara in the best way I knew how, and yet, it just didn’t work…I turned to porn and fantasy and other escapes because I really didn’t want to be in a marriage with a woman that I loved, but wasn’t in love with. So, I sometimes wonder if this divorce is merely another escape because I don’t want to work at the marriage because I think it should just be easy. At the same time I also feel like it wasn’t exactly my choice to get married in the first place, and if I had realized then what I realize now, I would have never gotten married to begin with.
However…I am married and whether or not I would have done it again may, by some, be considered irrelevant. The fact is we’re married and we have a son, so what do we do now?
It sounds like you still feel like you should stay married. But what do you want to do?
I want to be in love. Honestly, I’d like to date for a while and figure out what I like. I might even find that the person I like the most in the world is Sara. Back when we were dating, I’d often stray from her but find myself coming back. Even saying that though, it always felt like she was whom I should date, and not necessarily whom I wanted to date.
I’d like to date her without any pressure of staying married, or getting married or being married. But if I were dating her at this moment, well, I don’t know…I think the church would get in the way.
Would anything else get in the way?
Well, I haven’t met another woman like her really. I mean she’s really grown up to be amazing. She’s strong willed, intelligent, capable, talented, beautiful, and very loving. She has some insecurities, but we all do. And yet, even now, I don’t know if I’m saying that out of obligation, or because that’s what I really believe. Well, they are all true…and honestly I do worry that I’d never find someone better than Sara that loved me as much as she loves me. Hell, I wonder if I could even find someone close to as good as her.
What do you mean by “better” or “as good as?”
Someone that has all of the qualities that they look for in a wife. I mean, really, if you just wrote things down on paper, she’d appear to be the perfect wife…and mother I might add. And you know what? She really is. Which is another reason why I struggle with my desire to roam. I don’t know that I’m looking for something better, or even different. I think I’m looking to define myself better…I think I want to know for myself what qualities I really look for in a woman, not just the qualities that other people would like or what others think I should look for. I feel like I obligated myself into marrying her. And had I spent some time in life figuring things out, I could have come back to her and truly been in love with her and had a strong and happy marriage. But now, I don’t know what the best scenario is.
Are you just saying all this because you feel guilty for “wanting” a divorce, or maybe because you don’t want Sara to feel bad?
Well, I can’t say that I don’t feel guilty for wanting a divorce. And I do feel like a bit of a failure. Even though, I also feel proud of myself for standing up for what I believe in, and going through with something that is so hard. It has taken a lot of courage, but I feel like I’ve started to find myself. In some ways there are for the first time in my life things I know that I cannot deny. I’ve never felt that before and it’s very powerful.
As far as not wanting to hurt Sara’s feelings…I never want to hurt her. Even though I know I’m putting her through more pain than she’s ever experienced, I never wanted to hurt her. In fact, it might be my desire to not hurt her that got us into this problem to begin with. Maybe I should have been more willing to tell her early on that I wasn’t ready to commit to just her and that we’d have to wait. It would have hurt her then, but it would have been nothing compared to what she’s going through right now.
Do you miss her?
I miss her terribly. I miss life with her. I miss our jokes, I miss laughing with her…watching movies with her, getting into little disagreements with her. I love her. I love how wonderful of a mother she is to Sam. I love how caring a wife she was to me. I love how innocent she is, and how strong she is. And I loved “filling her cup” and I felt like I did a particularly good job at it too. Even though I could have given her more attention and sent flowers and done the little things more often.
What would you have to do if you wanted to get back together with her and make it work, assuming that you don’t have to be in the church in order for her to take you back?
Well, I’d of course have to give up on all the crap I’ve done up to this point. Flirting with other women, chatting, looking at porn, drinking, etc. I don’t know that all that stuff would be so hard to give up if I’m able to remain “free” in our relationship though…I think that I turned to a lot of it as an escape. The hardest things would be not having wandering eyes. I’m afraid I’d think that I needed to be single longer, to really make sure that she was what I wanted or something. Of course, I guess I wouldn’t be getting back together unless I was sure that was what I wanted.
What do you want?
I want to live my life. I want to live the life that I choose to live, not the life that I think I’m expected to live. I think there are a lot of things in life I could do, or I could at least realize that I’m not talented enough to do that I couldn’t even try in the life I was living. I just feel like I need some time to experiment with life, to experience it a little bit more than I feel like I had done. I want to learn from experience, although I understand it’s a fool’s school, it is the way I feel like I need to learn certain things.
What do you feel like you need to learn?
I need to learn my boundaries. I want to experience and define who I am. I want to see if truth really exists, and know what it feels like. I’ve had a couple experiences in my life when I’ve opened my eyes and realized that I was wrong, or right…and I want more of those. I cannot shake the feeling that I’m different than other people; that I’m destined to do something great…and yet, it has always eluded me. I don’t know if I’m chasing after it, or if I’m leaving behind anything that could have helped me attain it. But I need to start living according to what I think and feel, not by what other people think or tell me to feel. And yet…I feel guilty for doing this…I feel hesitant and worried that I’m going to wake up one day and realize that I’m wrong. In some ways I think that if I’m going to do this right, I just have to do it and not look back. I’m trying to take a wise approach to a fool’s game.
Why do you want to date?
I think I want to date for a number of reasons. On one side, I just want the excitement of the hunt. On the other, I would like to know what type of person I really identify with. But I don’t know if I’ll ever stop feeling guilty for going out with anybody other than Sara. And I don’t know if that’s because I feel like I should be going out with her because she’s “good” for me, or because I committed to her, or if it’s because I really prefer her. I sometimes think it’s also because I’m scared of being out on my own, and I’m comfortable with her.
I don’t think I could really feel right about getting back together with her without dating. I think that I’ve realized a lot about me, and now that I accept who I am a little better, I need to better realize what I want. And until I realize that, I don’t think I’d be in a position to say I only want to ever be with her for the rest of my life.
Should she wait around for me? Of course not. I’d like her to, but I know that’s way too much to hope for. In fact, I realize that I’m probably giving up any chance of ever getting back together with her, but I don’t really see any other options.
It sounds to me like you’re saying that you really do love Sara, but you don’t want to be committed to her.
Yes. That is how I feel. And I keep thinking to myself that if I was really “in love” with her, I would want to be with only her…I wouldn’t care about what else I was missing out on.
Are you already decided on everything?
No. I don’t think so. It’s weird, I feel like I’m still not sure I want a divorce, and yet, I don’t see any way around it. But if I’m really honest with myself, I still just see the divorce as one more step to take to free myself from her. But it’s not just about getting free from her, I want to be free to live the life that I choose, as I’ve already said. And yes, I guess I feel like once I’m free, and can start choosing what life I want, then maybe my love for her will grow into something stronger. What I mean is, then I can choose to love her.
But can’t you do that without a divorce?
No. I don’t think so. Because as long as we’re married, I’m going to feel some obligation to her, or at least to the marriage. And even though I will always have some obligation to her for the simple fact that she’s the mother of my son, I think that being unmarried will allow me the freedom I need to experience what I need to experience.
Why do you want a divorce?
Well, it’s not that I want one, but I don’t know that there’s anyway around it. I’m not the same man that Sara married. I’m not quite sure who I am but I want to figure that out…and I don’t think I can do that within the boundaries of marriage.
What kinds of things are you talking about?
Well, what kind of woman would I be with if I could be with any woman in the world? Do I like to drink? What kind of clothes do I prefer? What kind of a person do I want to be, not what kind of person does everybody want me to be, but who do I want me to be?
So, why can’t you figure these things out while you’re married?
Well, how can you love someone when you don’t know who they are? And if they don’t even know who they are, how can you hope to know who they are? I know that Sara wants somebody in the church, a priesthood holder, and I don’t know that that will ever be me. So I figure, I may as well let her be free to find what she is really looking for, while I figure out who I really am.
Do you love her?
Yes.
Would you consider yourself “in love” with her?
No, I don’t know if I ever actually was. I mean I wanted her to think I was, and I tried to make myself believe I was…but I’m not sure I ever actually was. I knew that she was in love with me, and because I did love her, I didn’t want to let her down or break her heart. Besides, I like her too. But I think that when you are in love with something, you are happy to let go of every other option…and I don’t know that I ever reached that point.
I also don’t know if I could be in love with her while she’s in love with me…maybe I’m the type of person that only wants what I can’t have. And yet, I do think it’s possible to be in love with someone that is in love with you…albeit rare. But it is something I seek for. In fact, I’ve been thinking a lot about unconditional love and being “free” from your partner. I’m guessing that there’s a love where both people love the other person unconditionally – which isn’t possible unless you’re truly free of them…and that love could be so powerful and help a person find so much happiness that it would be amazing.
Do you think such a love is possible with Sara?
I’m not sure. It would be if I was capable of loving Sara in such a way. This is something I have a hard time with. If you love somebody unconditionally…well then, why does it have to be them? And what is that you love about them then if they could change anything about themselves and you’d still love them? Is it safe to say that you’d still love the person but not be in love with what they have become? I feel like I really tried to love Sara in the best way I knew how, and yet, it just didn’t work…I turned to porn and fantasy and other escapes because I really didn’t want to be in a marriage with a woman that I loved, but wasn’t in love with. So, I sometimes wonder if this divorce is merely another escape because I don’t want to work at the marriage because I think it should just be easy. At the same time I also feel like it wasn’t exactly my choice to get married in the first place, and if I had realized then what I realize now, I would have never gotten married to begin with.
However…I am married and whether or not I would have done it again may, by some, be considered irrelevant. The fact is we’re married and we have a son, so what do we do now?
It sounds like you still feel like you should stay married. But what do you want to do?
I want to be in love. Honestly, I’d like to date for a while and figure out what I like. I might even find that the person I like the most in the world is Sara. Back when we were dating, I’d often stray from her but find myself coming back. Even saying that though, it always felt like she was whom I should date, and not necessarily whom I wanted to date.
I’d like to date her without any pressure of staying married, or getting married or being married. But if I were dating her at this moment, well, I don’t know…I think the church would get in the way.
Would anything else get in the way?
Well, I haven’t met another woman like her really. I mean she’s really grown up to be amazing. She’s strong willed, intelligent, capable, talented, beautiful, and very loving. She has some insecurities, but we all do. And yet, even now, I don’t know if I’m saying that out of obligation, or because that’s what I really believe. Well, they are all true…and honestly I do worry that I’d never find someone better than Sara that loved me as much as she loves me. Hell, I wonder if I could even find someone close to as good as her.
What do you mean by “better” or “as good as?”
Someone that has all of the qualities that they look for in a wife. I mean, really, if you just wrote things down on paper, she’d appear to be the perfect wife…and mother I might add. And you know what? She really is. Which is another reason why I struggle with my desire to roam. I don’t know that I’m looking for something better, or even different. I think I’m looking to define myself better…I think I want to know for myself what qualities I really look for in a woman, not just the qualities that other people would like or what others think I should look for. I feel like I obligated myself into marrying her. And had I spent some time in life figuring things out, I could have come back to her and truly been in love with her and had a strong and happy marriage. But now, I don’t know what the best scenario is.
Are you just saying all this because you feel guilty for “wanting” a divorce, or maybe because you don’t want Sara to feel bad?
Well, I can’t say that I don’t feel guilty for wanting a divorce. And I do feel like a bit of a failure. Even though, I also feel proud of myself for standing up for what I believe in, and going through with something that is so hard. It has taken a lot of courage, but I feel like I’ve started to find myself. In some ways there are for the first time in my life things I know that I cannot deny. I’ve never felt that before and it’s very powerful.
As far as not wanting to hurt Sara’s feelings…I never want to hurt her. Even though I know I’m putting her through more pain than she’s ever experienced, I never wanted to hurt her. In fact, it might be my desire to not hurt her that got us into this problem to begin with. Maybe I should have been more willing to tell her early on that I wasn’t ready to commit to just her and that we’d have to wait. It would have hurt her then, but it would have been nothing compared to what she’s going through right now.
Do you miss her?
I miss her terribly. I miss life with her. I miss our jokes, I miss laughing with her…watching movies with her, getting into little disagreements with her. I love her. I love how wonderful of a mother she is to Sam. I love how caring a wife she was to me. I love how innocent she is, and how strong she is. And I loved “filling her cup” and I felt like I did a particularly good job at it too. Even though I could have given her more attention and sent flowers and done the little things more often.
What would you have to do if you wanted to get back together with her and make it work, assuming that you don’t have to be in the church in order for her to take you back?
Well, I’d of course have to give up on all the crap I’ve done up to this point. Flirting with other women, chatting, looking at porn, drinking, etc. I don’t know that all that stuff would be so hard to give up if I’m able to remain “free” in our relationship though…I think that I turned to a lot of it as an escape. The hardest things would be not having wandering eyes. I’m afraid I’d think that I needed to be single longer, to really make sure that she was what I wanted or something. Of course, I guess I wouldn’t be getting back together unless I was sure that was what I wanted.
What do you want?
I want to live my life. I want to live the life that I choose to live, not the life that I think I’m expected to live. I think there are a lot of things in life I could do, or I could at least realize that I’m not talented enough to do that I couldn’t even try in the life I was living. I just feel like I need some time to experiment with life, to experience it a little bit more than I feel like I had done. I want to learn from experience, although I understand it’s a fool’s school, it is the way I feel like I need to learn certain things.
What do you feel like you need to learn?
I need to learn my boundaries. I want to experience and define who I am. I want to see if truth really exists, and know what it feels like. I’ve had a couple experiences in my life when I’ve opened my eyes and realized that I was wrong, or right…and I want more of those. I cannot shake the feeling that I’m different than other people; that I’m destined to do something great…and yet, it has always eluded me. I don’t know if I’m chasing after it, or if I’m leaving behind anything that could have helped me attain it. But I need to start living according to what I think and feel, not by what other people think or tell me to feel. And yet…I feel guilty for doing this…I feel hesitant and worried that I’m going to wake up one day and realize that I’m wrong. In some ways I think that if I’m going to do this right, I just have to do it and not look back. I’m trying to take a wise approach to a fool’s game.
Why do you want to date?
I think I want to date for a number of reasons. On one side, I just want the excitement of the hunt. On the other, I would like to know what type of person I really identify with. But I don’t know if I’ll ever stop feeling guilty for going out with anybody other than Sara. And I don’t know if that’s because I feel like I should be going out with her because she’s “good” for me, or because I committed to her, or if it’s because I really prefer her. I sometimes think it’s also because I’m scared of being out on my own, and I’m comfortable with her.
I don’t think I could really feel right about getting back together with her without dating. I think that I’ve realized a lot about me, and now that I accept who I am a little better, I need to better realize what I want. And until I realize that, I don’t think I’d be in a position to say I only want to ever be with her for the rest of my life.
Should she wait around for me? Of course not. I’d like her to, but I know that’s way too much to hope for. In fact, I realize that I’m probably giving up any chance of ever getting back together with her, but I don’t really see any other options.
It sounds to me like you’re saying that you really do love Sara, but you don’t want to be committed to her.
Yes. That is how I feel. And I keep thinking to myself that if I was really “in love” with her, I would want to be with only her…I wouldn’t care about what else I was missing out on.
Are you already decided on everything?
No. I don’t think so. It’s weird, I feel like I’m still not sure I want a divorce, and yet, I don’t see any way around it. But if I’m really honest with myself, I still just see the divorce as one more step to take to free myself from her. But it’s not just about getting free from her, I want to be free to live the life that I choose, as I’ve already said. And yes, I guess I feel like once I’m free, and can start choosing what life I want, then maybe my love for her will grow into something stronger. What I mean is, then I can choose to love her.
But can’t you do that without a divorce?
No. I don’t think so. Because as long as we’re married, I’m going to feel some obligation to her, or at least to the marriage. And even though I will always have some obligation to her for the simple fact that she’s the mother of my son, I think that being unmarried will allow me the freedom I need to experience what I need to experience.
Thursday, June 17, 2004
I want a divorce from a woman that i love.
why?
I feel like there are things about myself that i need to learn, that i feel i can't do within the bounds of marriage.
I want to date
I want to flirt.
I want to live on my own for a while and figure out what I really like, what I really want.
Honestly, and i know this sounds lazy, but I don't want all of the responsibilities that come from marriage.
I want to be single for a while and just spend some time defining who i am, and what kind of a person i want to be with.
I want to meet a bunch of different women and decide what i like about each one and know what i would like most to live with for the rest of my life.
Could I live with Sara and be happy? Maybe...if the church wasn't a part of our life...and if we could avoid her family (although, i do like Andy...).
I hate the thought of being a divorcee
I hate that thought of Sara going back to work, and not seeing Sam very often.
I hate thinking of having to "share" Sam...
i love him
so much
i miss him
and there's a lot about my life before that i miss...
do i need a divorce in order to experience what i'm hoping to experience?
i think i do...
but i think i'll think a little bit more about this before its final.
...coming back sure would be a bitch though...
...but one thing i've learned is that we can do just about anything.
and it doesn't matter if people are going to talk behind my back, or think poorly of me...screw them...this is my life...and i will live it how i see best...and if that means leaving my wife, then fine...and if that means getting back with her, then that's fine too...it's none of their business.
i am living for myself now, not for others.
but after fulfilling this phase, after knowing who i am, and what i want and what i believe...i'll be more capable of really helping other people find what they're really looking for...and can even help them find some happiness.
why?
I feel like there are things about myself that i need to learn, that i feel i can't do within the bounds of marriage.
I want to date
I want to flirt.
I want to live on my own for a while and figure out what I really like, what I really want.
Honestly, and i know this sounds lazy, but I don't want all of the responsibilities that come from marriage.
I want to be single for a while and just spend some time defining who i am, and what kind of a person i want to be with.
I want to meet a bunch of different women and decide what i like about each one and know what i would like most to live with for the rest of my life.
Could I live with Sara and be happy? Maybe...if the church wasn't a part of our life...and if we could avoid her family (although, i do like Andy...).
I hate the thought of being a divorcee
I hate that thought of Sara going back to work, and not seeing Sam very often.
I hate thinking of having to "share" Sam...
i love him
so much
i miss him
and there's a lot about my life before that i miss...
do i need a divorce in order to experience what i'm hoping to experience?
i think i do...
but i think i'll think a little bit more about this before its final.
...coming back sure would be a bitch though...
...but one thing i've learned is that we can do just about anything.
and it doesn't matter if people are going to talk behind my back, or think poorly of me...screw them...this is my life...and i will live it how i see best...and if that means leaving my wife, then fine...and if that means getting back with her, then that's fine too...it's none of their business.
i am living for myself now, not for others.
but after fulfilling this phase, after knowing who i am, and what i want and what i believe...i'll be more capable of really helping other people find what they're really looking for...and can even help them find some happiness.
Monday, June 14, 2004
I'm pretty sure that believing in something is more important that what you actually believe in. My problem is I'm still not sure what I want to believe in, but i feel like i'm wasting time until i choose something. I don't really want to choose what i used to believe in because i feel like that was dictated to me, and i want to be the one to choose to believe whatever it is that i end up believing. I guess i do at least know that i believe that it's important to believe something...so i guess that's a start.
